Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you got started in this industry?
I have a bit of a unique career path. I was a former athlete and played in the New York Mets organization after being drafted in 2001. After my athletic career, I got into private money real estate lending, and eventually I launched a sports drink company with Carmelo Anthony and the owners of Four Loko. We ran that company for about five and a half years.
Following that, I joined a company called Hypur, a payment and banking technology company that worked with financial institutions to bank highly regulated industries, such as cannabis. Almost overnight, I was thrown into a bank in Denver, and eventually found my way to Safe Harbor Financial. In my role as chief strategic business development officer, it’s critical that I keep my finger on the pulse of the financial and legal inner workings of the cannabis space, and build relationships with financial institutions, government officials, regulatory bodies and the state legal cannabis industry.
I’ve been fortunate to build a career and relationships throughout the cannabis industry over the last decade through roles such as the former chairman of the National Cannabis Industry Association Banking and Financial Services Committee, the Marijuana Business Daily’s Advisory Board and the ATACH Cannabis Beverage Council.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
One of the most interesting and impactful experiences was during my time playing in New York when I found myself in the middle of the events of September 11th. It was during our first championship series, and the contrast between the high of signing my first contract and the devastating events that followed was incredibly intense. I remember calling my parents and telling them I didn’t think I was going to make it because we kept having bomb threats at the hotel. It was an eerie thing to experience. I was on one of the first flights out of JFK that Friday after the attacks. Going from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows in such a short amount of time was something that’s definitely tough to beat in terms of impactful experiences.
Professionally, in the cannabis industry, being part of the processes behind the scenes when states launch their respective cannabis markets has been incredibly gratifying. I’ve had the privilege to work closely with state governments, prominent politicians, and operators during these pivotal moments. It’s been exciting to be there as markets are launched and fully legalized. I’ve been fortunate to be part of many of these events and the processes behind the scenes. This involvement has given me unique insights into how the industry is evolving and the challenges it faces. Being able to contribute to the growth and normalization of this multi-billion dollar industry has been a significant part of my career, allowing me to leverage my experience in banking and finance to help solve some of the biggest financial problems facing cannabis companies.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
One of my favorite quotes is, “Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.” This quote has always resonated with me and serves as a compass in my life. It reminds me to stay focused on the bigger picture and engage in meaningful conversations.
Another quote that I hold close is, “If plan A doesn’t work, there’s an entire alphabet to consider.” This quote is relevant in the professional world, where you’re going to face challenges and periods of despair. How you respond to those challenges will define your career.
Ok wonderful. Let’s now shift to the main focus of our interview. Can you tell our readers about the most interesting projects you are working on now?
Right now, we’re focused on bringing unique lending products to market that will help the cannabis industry thrive. Instead of waiting around for legislation, we’re actively working to solve the biggest financial problems for cannabis companies through the private sector. It’s exciting to be part of this endeavor because I’ve seen the industry evolve from a time when banks wouldn’t touch it to now, where financial institutions across the country are serving it. Now, the challenge is solving the lending problem, and that’s what we’re working diligently on.
This work is particularly crucial because the cannabis industry is still facing significant financial challenges. For instance, the branded card networks still prohibit cannabis-related transactions, which means any card-based product being used in the industry today is not compliant and is subject to potential shutdown at any moment. This creates a huge opportunity in the payment space — despite payment modalities accounting for billions of dollars worth of transactions a year in our industry, over 99% of those are not survivable.
How do you think this might change the world?
I believe this could help normalize the cannabis industry even more, enabling a multi-billion dollar industry to grow and become an integral part of the economy. By solving these financial challenges, we’re not only helping the cannabis industry but also setting a precedent that could benefit other emerging industries.
Safe Harbor Financial’s goal is to enable this multi-billion dollar industry to start becoming even more normalized. We’re trying to thread the needle where others haven’t been able to yet. By developing these lending products, we’re not just waiting for legislative changes but actively working to solve problems through innovation in the private sector.
This approach is necessary because while the industry has made significant strides — for example, you’d be hard-pressed to find a single operator in this country that didn’t have a transparent cannabis banking relationship now — there are still major hurdles to overcome. The industry remains cash-intensive, which creates unique challenges.
By focusing on these lending solutions, we’re aiming to enhance the financial infrastructure of the cannabis industry, making it more robust and allowing businesses to operate more efficiently. This work has the potential to impact not just the cannabis industry, but to serve as a model for how other emerging or high-risk industries can be served by the financial sector.
What most excites you about the banking or payments industry as it is today? Can you explain what you mean?
What excites me most about the banking and payments industry today, especially as it relates to cannabis, is the massive untapped potential that exists. We’re looking at an industry that processes billions of dollars worth of transactions annually, yet over 99% of these transactions are not compliant or survivable under current regulations. It’s a precarious situation, but it’s also ripe with opportunity.
The real game-changer will come when the branded card networks finally decide to step in and support cannabis-related transactions. Right now, these major players — think Visa, Mastercard, and the like — still prohibit cannabis transactions. This means that any card-based product being used in the industry today is essentially operating on borrowed time. They’re not compliant with the networks’ rules and could potentially be shut down at any moment.
But here’s where it gets exciting: when these branded card networks do come to the table, the cannabis industry will be wide open. It’s essentially uncharted territory from a financial services perspective. We’re talking about a multi-billion dollar industry that’s been operating largely on cash and workarounds, suddenly opening up to mainstream financial tools and services.
In my view, this represents one of the biggest opportunities in the financial services sector today. It’s a chance to be at the forefront of bringing an entire industry into the mainstream financial fold. That’s what gets me excited about the future of banking and payments in the cannabis industry.
What most concerns you about the banking or payments industry as it is today? What would you suggest needs to be done to address that?
My biggest excitement is also my biggest concern: branded card networks still prohibit cannabis-related transactions. Any card-based product being used in the industry today is not compliant and is subject to potential shutdown at any moment. To address this, the card networks need to recognize the legitimacy of the cannabis industry and allow these transactions, providing a stable and compliant payment solution.
The opportunity and challenge here is immense. Whoever manages to thread this needle correctly — to create compliant, scalable payment solutions for the cannabis industry that meet both regulatory requirements and the needs of businesses and consumers — will be tapping into a huge market. It’s not just about processing payments, either. This shift would open up possibilities for a whole suite of financial services tailored to the cannabis industry. We’re talking about everything from business loans to investment products, all built on a foundation of compliant, trackable transactions.
The challenge, and what makes this both so concerning and exciting to me, is that nobody has quite cracked this code yet, and without full federal legalization, we may never crack that code. We’re all waiting for that regulatory shift, that moment when the big players decide it’s time to enter the cannabis space. And when that happens, it’s going to be a race to see who can provide the best, most comprehensive solutions.
How would you articulate how the concept of money has changed in recent times? Is it really a change? How is it still the same? Can you explain what you mean?
In the context of cannabis, I’ve witnessed a significant shift in the concept of money. Early on, operators were dealing with mountains of cash just to run their daily operations. It was an overwhelming process where cash literally dominated every aspect of the business. Over time, though, there’s been a notable transition towards a more digital experience, especially as transparent banking relationships have become more common across the industry.Today, you’d be hard-pressed to find a cannabis operator who doesn’t have some level of digital banking integration, allowing for more streamlined operations. This shift from cash to digital transactions marks a huge evolution in the industry. That said, at its core, money still serves the same fundamental purpose, whether it’s physical cash or digital currency, it’s the lifeblood of business. However, the way it’s handled has certainly transformed, making the industry more efficient and transparent while still grappling with challenges around compliance and financial accessibility.
Based on your vantage point as an insider in the finance industry, what innovations should we expect to see in banking in the short and medium term?
I believe we’ll continue to see integrations that create greater efficiency. We’re on the cusp of seeing several key innovations that will reshape banking, particularly in sectors like cannabis where financial integration has always been a challenge. One of the most promising developments is the continued integration of banking platforms with enterprise resource planning (ERP) systems and accounting platforms. These integrations will create a more seamless user experience for cannabis operators, enabling them to streamline financial reporting, inventory management, and tax compliance all within a unified system. This kind of operational efficiency is crucial for an industry that is already under significant regulatory scrutiny and relies heavily on precise financial management.
I also expect banking-as-a-service (BaaS) platforms to continue driving innovation. These platforms provide an alternative to traditional financial institutions, offering greater flexibility and customization to meet the specific needs of businesses in high-risk industries like cannabis. We’re already seeing a trend where a significant portion of new bank accounts are opened via BaaS providers rather than direct financial institutions. This shift will likely accelerate as these services expand their offerings, allowing for faster, more agile financial solutions tailored to the cannabis sector.
Traditional banks can be slow to adapt to technological advances and have historically lagged behind in servicing high-risk industries, while BaaS companies are more nimble and better equipped to innovate. They have the ability to offer bespoke solutions such as real-time transaction tracking, digital wallets, and enhanced security measures, all of which will improve the overall banking experience for cannabis operators. These platforms have the potential to help bridge gaps in compliance, since they’re better positioned to incorporate evolving regulatory requirements directly into their services — making it easier for businesses to stay compliant without additional burden.
How has the pandemic changed the way banks interact and engage with their customers?
The pandemic has accelerated the shift towards a more remote and digital society. Most people now engage with their banks digitally rather than visiting physical branches. Pre-pandemic, many customers still relied on traditional methods, and visited physical branches for deposits or transactions. As we adapted to social distancing and lockdowns, banks had to quickly pivot to remote and digital solutions, which in turn changed customer behavior.
Today, most people engage with their banks through digital platforms. Whether it’s remote deposits via mobile apps, managing accounts through online banking, or using chatbots for customer service, the banking industry has seen a dramatic reduction in foot traffic to physical branches. This shift has made banking more accessible and convenient, allowing customers to manage their finances from the comfort of their homes without needing to step into a bank.
One key impact of this shift is the speed at which banking services are now delivered. The use of digital tools, such as encrypted messaging apps, video calls, and real-time notifications, has significantly reduced response times for customer inquiries and transactions. This immediacy has become a key expectation, with customers now accustomed to instant access to their financial information and services.
That said, the cannabis industry still faces unique challenges in this digital evolution. While the broader banking world has embraced digital solutions, cannabis remains a cash-intensive business. Due to ongoing federal regulations and the reluctance of traditional financial institutions to engage with cannabis businesses, there’s still a heavy reliance on physical cash logistics for many transactions. Despite the broader shift towards digital, cannabis operators must continue to work with cash logistics providers to move money securely to financial institutions.
In your particular experience, how has the pandemic changed the way you interact with, and engage your customers?
The pandemic has highlighted the need for more innovative digital solutions, even in cash-heavy sectors like cannabis. There’s been a significant shift towards digital interactions, which has enhanced the speed of communication. In the cannabis industry, however, there’s still a heavy reliance on physical cash, so while digital interactions have increased, the need for cash logistics remains a constant in the business.
As we move forward, I expect we’ll see more tailored digital banking services designed to address these specific challenges, further enhancing the user experience while bridging the gap between cash-based and digital transactions. This digital transformation is undeniably the future of banking, and it will continue to evolve as customers demand more convenience and accessibility. This digital experience is clearly the future of banking, making interactions more convenient and accessible.
I’m very interested in the importance of user experience. How much of your interactions have moved to digital such as chatbots, encrypted messaging apps, phone, or video calls? How has this shift impacted the user and customer experience? What challenges do these apps present when used as a customer engagement tool?
A large portion of our interactions have moved to digital platforms, and this has certainly improved the speed and efficiency of communication. With the use of chatbots, encrypted messaging apps, and video calls, customers can now engage with their banks or service providers much faster than before. This shift allows for real-time responses to inquiries, reducing wait times and enhancing overall satisfaction. Customers now expect immediate answers, and digital platforms have largely delivered on that front.
The shift to digital is not without its challenges. One of the primary issues we face is that customers are not a monolithic group; customers are vastly different, and a one-size-fits-all digital solution doesn’t always work. Customers have different preferences and comfort levels when it comes to interacting with technology. While many users appreciate the convenience and speed of digital interactions, others still prefer the traditional, in-person experience. This is especially true for complex financial issues or high-stakes transactions where personal interaction and trust-building are crucial.
In the cannabis industry, this challenge is amplified. As I’ve mentioned before, the business is still heavily reliant on cash transactions due to regulatory hurdles, and while digital tools have improved many aspects of banking, the physical component of cash logistics remains. Operators often need to physically transport cash to their financial institutions, adding an additional layer of complexity that digital platforms can’t entirely solve.
Digital tools can sometimes feel impersonal, which can impact the overall customer experience. While chatbots and messaging apps provide quick answers, they may lack the nuance and empathy that a human interaction offers. For some customers, especially those dealing with sensitive financial issues or regulatory compliance in a highly scrutinized industry like cannabis, speaking to a person can make a huge difference in building trust and resolving concerns.
The key challenge moving forward will be finding a balance between offering efficient digital solutions and maintaining a human touch for those customers who prefer it. The future of customer engagement in banking lies in the ability to offer a hybrid model — leveraging the speed of digital platforms while also providing personalized, human interactions when needed. This balance will be crucial, especially in industries like cannabis, where financial dealings often require more hands-on, tailored approaches.
If you could design the perfect communication feature or system to help your business, what would it be?
The ideal communication system would seamlessly integrate all platforms — banking, accounting, inventory, and compliance — ensuring fluid communication across the business ecosystem. In industries like cannabis, where operators manage multiple systems in silos, this would simplify processes, reduce errors, and enhance efficiency.
For example, a system that automatically syncs banking transactions with accounting software and tax reporting tools would streamline operations, making it easier to stay compliant. This integration would benefit accounting teams, vendors, and clients by improving communication, providing real-time updates, and eliminating the inefficiencies caused by fragmented systems. Ultimately, such a system would enhance scalability and deliver a smoother customer experience as businesses grow.
What are your “5 Things You Need To Create A Highly Successful Career In The Modern Finance, Banking and Fintech industries?
First, you need to be relatable and able to find common ground with people, regardless of industry or profession. Second, always have a team-first attitude. Many people focus so much on building their careers that they become obtuse to what’s happening around them. Third, always put the customer’s needs first. If you view business through that lens, success is almost inevitable. Fourth, do things for people even when there’s no immediate benefit to you. Building a reputation for doing what’s best for others, without having your hand out, is invaluable. Lastly, trust your gut instinct. A strong gut will navigate you through the professional world in a unique way, and it’s something that many people lose sight of in today’s fast-paced world.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
I would love the opportunity to talk to college students across the country about the realities of life after college. There’s a huge disconnect between what students perceive as reality and what actually happens in the real world. My career path is far from linear, and I’ve been fortunate to jump on opportunities as they’ve crossed my path. If I could help prepare them mentally for the challenges and realities they’ll face, I think it could make a significant impact on their lives.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
You can follow my work and stay updated with what I’m doing through my LinkedIn, and the company’s website: shfinancial.org.
Thank you so much for the time you spent doing this interview. This was very inspirational, and we wish you continued success.